SCOTT SIMON, HOST:
An influential conservative think tank fielding criticism from Democrats is not surprising. But in recent weeks, former President Donald Trump has made a point to criticize the Heritage Foundation for its sweeping plan called Project 2025. What's at play here? NPR's Franco Ordoñez went to find out.
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UNIDENTIFIED MUSICAL ARTIST: (Singing) And the rockets' red glare. The bombs bursting in air...
FRANCO ORDOÑEZ, BYLINE: In a glitzy ballroom in downtown Milwaukee, some of the top conservative voices took the stage at the Heritage Foundation's Policy Fest to tackle what they see as the dire stakes of this election...
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UNIDENTIFIED PERSON: Chaos reigns at home and abroad. Elites in Washington have forgotten that they are supposed to serve us, the American people.
ORDOÑEZ: ...And how they planned to fix things.
ANDY OLIVASTRO: I grew up under Ronald Reagan, and he used to say that the nine scariest words in the English language were, I'm from the government, and I'm here to help. But I have another sentence for you. These might be the nine best words in the English language. I'm from Project 2025, and I'm here to win (laughter).
ORDOÑEZ: That's Andy Olivastro of Heritage. But Project 2025, the Heritage Foundation's plan to overhaul the American government, has been at the center of controversy. Former President Donald Trump has tried to distance himself from the project, while the Biden campaign and Democrats argue it's an example of Trump's authoritarian bent. Those tensions were on display at the Republican National Convention.
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CHRIS LACIVITA: They're a pain in the a**.
ORDOÑEZ: Chris LaCivita, a senior adviser to the Trump campaign, was asked about Project 2025 at several events. He pushed back every time, arguing it was Trump and the campaign in charge. Here he is at one, hosted by CNN and Politico.
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LACIVITA: Look, I think that in the perfect world, from their perspective, they would love to drive the issue set, but they don't get to do that.
ORDOÑEZ: The reality is the ties between Heritage and Trump world run deep. Heritage served as one of the largest sources of staffers for the first Trump administration. Eight years ago, John Yoo, a conservative constitutional scholar and UC Berkeley law professor, joked about the ties at an event for the Heritage Foundation soon after Trump's 2016 victory.
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JOHN YOO: I'm surprised there's so many people here because I thought everyone at Heritage was working over at the transition headquarters already.
ORDOÑEZ: Trump says he knows nothing about Project 2025 or who's behind it. He called some of the ideas ridiculous, but he hasn't always felt this way about Heritage. Two years ago at a foundation event, he told the group their work would, again, help save America.
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DONALD TRUMP: But this is a great group, and they're going to lay the groundwork and detailed plans for exactly what our movement will do and what your movement will do when the American people give us a colossal mandate to save America, and that's coming.
ORDOÑEZ: But that was then. Now Heritage is getting a taste of what so many others who have crossed or gotten ahead of Trump have faced.
TEVI TROY: Many entities, magazines, think tanks, people have tried to say, I'm going to be the distillation of Trump's views. I'm going to represent what MAGA conservatism is.
ORDOÑEZ: Tevi Troy has followed several of these conservative movements. He's a presidential historian and former White House aide to George W. Bush. He says it's hard to track what Trump wants or needs because he's so transactional and doesn't want to be saddled with things that are unpopular.
TROY: And as soon as there was deviation, as soon as there was separation between what that person thought and what Trump thought, then either Trump jettisoned the person or the person lost their relevance.
ORDOÑEZ: But the connections between the two are still obvious. Several Trump allies who spoke on stage at the Heritage event also spoke on stage at the Republican National Convention, including Vivek Ramaswamy and commentator Tucker Carlson. Kevin Roberts, the president of Heritage, says Project 2025 does not represent the entire conservative movement. The purpose is to provide options.
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KEVIN ROBERTS: We have a plan among a unified movement to speak on behalf of the everyday American, the forgotten American.
ORDOÑEZ: As for the criticism and controversy...
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ROBERTS: The reason progressive Democrats hate these ideas so much is because they are a threat to their power.
ORDOÑEZ: Roberts insists Heritage is ready to earn their influence through personnel and policies, just like he says they did in the first administration.
Franco Ordoñez, NPR News, Milwaukee. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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