TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. In the summer of 1982, my guest today, entertainment writer Chris Nashawaty, was a 13-year-old burgeoning film geek, who spent the entire summer that year in movie theaters watching eight feature films that would go on to change the face of cinema as we know it - movies like "Blade Runner," "Conan The Barbarian," "Poltergeist" and a sweet movie about an alien trying to find his way back home.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "E.T. THE EXTRA-TERRESTRIAL")
PAT WELSH: (As E.T.) E.T. home phone.
DREW BARRYMORE: (As Gertie) E.T. phone home.
WELSH: (As E.T.) Home.
HENRY THOMAS: (As Elliott) E.T. phone home. E.T. phone home.
BARRYMORE: (As Gertie) He wants to call somebody.
(SOUNDBITE OF DOOR CLOSING)
ROBERT MACNAUGHTON: (As Michael) Wait, what's all this [expletive]?
WELSH: (As E.T.) E.T. phone home.
MACNAUGHTON: (As Michael) My God, he's talking.
WELSH: (As E.T.) Phone.
THOMAS: (As Elliott) E.T. phone home?
WELSH: (As E.T.) E.T. phone home.
THOMAS: (As Elliott) And they'll come?
WELSH: (As E.T.) Go home.
MOSLEY: "E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial" is a classic, of course, and was a huge hit when it was released the weekend of July Fourth in 1982, making it, at the time, the biggest box office hit in Hollywood history. Some of the other movies that made a splash were "Tron," "The Thing," "Star Trek: Wrath of Khan," and "Mad Max: The Road Warrior." Chris Nashawaty has written a new book about the significance of that summer called "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-Fi Summer Of 1982." Up until that point, Hollywood executives, he says, were baffled by the sci-fi/fantasy genre, until these movies showed them the potential of tapping into a rabid fan base eager to spend money on merchandise and endless sequels.
Chris Nashawaty is a writer, editor, and former film critic of Entertainment Weekly. His work has appeared in Esquire, Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair. He is also the author of "Caddyshack: The Making Of A Hollywood Cinderella Story." And Chris Nashawaty, welcome to FRESH AIR.
CHRIS NASHAWATY: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Well, you know, what is so interesting about this conversation right now is that the movies that are making a splash today are reboots and part two, three, fours - many of the same movies that we're going to be talking about today. It's like the summer of 1982 brought with it both an expansion of our thinking, but also kind of created a monster.
NASHAWATY: That is 100% the argument of the book. You know, it's interesting that this was a - that summer was a real turning point. It was the beginning of Hollywood really catering to fan culture, which is something - you know, right now as we're talking, you know, Comic-Con is still fresh in the news.
MOSLEY: That's right. Yeah.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. So, you know, it's interesting that that summer sort of was a reaction to what had gone on with "Star Wars," proving that, you know, there was an audience for a genre that was, in many ways, dismissed as geeky or kid stuff or whatever...
MOSLEY: A subculture.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. And the subculture sort of became the culture that summer.
MOSLEY: So "Star Wars," 1977, "Jaws," 1975, are two films that - they're usually talked about as the birth of the summer blockbuster as we know it. And it opened up this world of sci-fi and fantasy. How did those two films, though, set the stage for this summer of 1982?
NASHAWATY: Yeah. I mean, I think that "Jaws" and "Star Wars" were potent examples of movies that people didn't just pay to see in the summer, but paid to see over and over again. They were movies that appealed to, as you mentioned, in the intro, a rabid fan base. And the studios saw how much money that those movies were making and knew that they needed to tap into this audience. They need to follow that trend, as Hollywood always does. But that takes time. It's like turning a battleship, right? So after - usually when you want to find out where a trend came from, in terms of movies, just look back five years earlier because that's how long it takes to develop and make a movie and release it. So five years earlier before 1982, was 1977 - hello, "Star Wars." So that's what they're all reacting to in the summer.
MOSLEY: OK. Let's talk about what films actually came out the summer of 1982. So there was "Tron." There was "The Thing."
NASHAWATY: "The Thing," "Blade Runner," "The Road Warrior," "Conan The Barbarian," "Star Trek: The Wrath Of Khan," and what...
MOSLEY: "E.T."
NASHAWATY: "E.T., " "Poltergeist."
MOSLEY: How many of them were original screenplays, and how many of them were based on books or comics?
NASHAWATY: Well, I would - I mean, there are two ways to answer that question. I think of them all as original because they were not based on - like, today, the concept of what's original is very different from back then. Some of them were based on books. Like, for example, "The Thing" was based on a science fiction story called "Who Goes There?" You know, "Blade Runner" was based on a Philip K. Dick novel called "Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?" You know, they were all - "E.T." was completely original. "Road Warrior" was completely original. I mean, it was a mix, really, but none of them were based on what we consider today as, you know, popular intellectual property. You know what I mean? They weren't these huge IP things. They would become those, but they weren't them. And so, to me, it's very telling that in one summer, you had all of these fresh, bold, original ideas, which is sort of the exact opposite of where we find ourselves right...
MOSLEY: Where we are today.
NASHAWATY: ...Now. Yeah.
MOSLEY: Well, this book is a fun read because you give a lot of behind-the-scenes history. And people love hearing those stories about, like, who was thought of to cast for who and then who ended up getting the role, and then some of the fights and things like that. But the stories that I love the most are the stories behind the writing of these - these stories that are enduring stories that we love. Take us back to when Steven Spielberg was conceptualizing "E.T." At the time, he was considered the golden boy. He was like...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...The it director in town at the time.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. Yeah, he had just done "Jaws," which obviously was a massive hit, and he could really do anything he wanted after that. So he decided to make "Close Encounters." And the reason I bring that up is that it's in a way, sort of a cousin - a pretty close cousin to this movie, "E.T." You know, you've got this really promising young director dealing in science fiction. And in a way, he sort of legitimized it, right? With - him and Lucas sort of legitimize the genre by making really great movies in what was seen as a very populist, maybe low, genre. And, you know, with "E.T," that was really a story that he had been carrying around for a long time, really since his childhood. He had a very lonely childhood. His parents split up, and he never really understood why, only understood much later. And I think he felt like an ugly duckling at school. He was Jewish in an area that wasn't - you know, didn't have a very large Jewish population.
I think he felt like - you know, like an outsider, and a lonely outsider, so created, you know, these sort of pretend friends. And "E.T." is really the outgrowth of that story. I mean, it's - as great as a science fiction tale as it is, it's also this really sort of touching story about...
MOSLEY: Children.
NASHAWATY: ...Growing up in the suburbs alone. You know, you've got your siblings, but really, like, it's a broken home. It's a broken family. But there's a lot of love there, and it's - you know, he had this story inside of him, and he's told it a couple of times in various ways, most recently with "The Fabelmans." But, like, he taps into his own life, which makes the stories, especially resonant and personal. He also had a screenwriter who really brought a lot to the project, and that was Melissa Mathison. She had written "The Black Stallion." And she was dating Harrison Ford when they were making "Raiders Of The Lost Ark," and that was the movie that he made right before "E.T." And while they were on the set, they met. And he knew that he needed an emotional sort of assist on this - on the script for "E.T."
MOSLEY: Because the initial screenplay didn't have some of these...
NASHAWATY: It was very different.
MOSLEY: Yeah. It was very different.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: In what way?
NASHAWATY: It was more of a horror story, really. I mean, it was about a group of aliens that are left behind. At the time, it was being called "Night Skies," and it was a darker story. And, in fact, he actually hired a writer to sort of pursue that. He hired John Sayles, a great screenwriter, to sort of go down that path, and he wrote that script. And I think by the time he delivered it, Spielberg had had a bit of a change of heart and realized that he wanted it to be a more emotional, sort of kinder, gentler story for kids.
MOSLEY: The way you say it in the book is that - what came of that is where that story, "Night Skies," ends is where "E.T." begins.
NASHAWATY: Yeah, exactly.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. It's a great making-of story. And Spielberg - you know, I'm especially fascinated by him at this period of his career because he is having so much success so quickly. And he's really working at the height of his powers. He has all this energy. He's hopping from one project to the next. He's sort of this unstoppable force of nature.
MOSLEY: And yet, someone did turn down "E.T." initially - an executive.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. I mean, that's a great story, too. I mean, he had a deal with Columbia to make "E.T." there. And they had signed on for the scarier, darker version because they wanted this sort of hard, science fiction, dark story from the director of "Jaws." That, they could sell, right?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: And then he told them that he was shifting it in a different direction, you know, into the softer story. And when they read the script, they just said, this is a wimpy kid's Disney movie. We can't - we don't - we're not interested in this. We're not interested in this. And they basically said, you know, we're going to not make this movie. And they put it in turnaround, which means that another studio - if they paid what Columbia had invested in the property already, they could take the picture.
So Spielberg called up his buddy at Universal, Sidney Sheinberg, who had worked with him on "Jaws." And he said, look, can you write a check for a million bucks to take this project? I really want to make this movie, and Columbia's not going to make it. And he was like, yeah, of course.
So what's interesting is that Columbia made a huge mistake, obviously, because "E.T." became the biggest movie of all time. And they retained 5% of the film's profits. But the funny thing is - and the ironic thing is - is that Columbia, just from their 5% - that made more money for that - for the studio that year than any of their own homegrown movies. So, I mean, they really screwed up.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is writer Chris Nashawaty. We're talking about his new book, "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-fi Summer Of 1982." The book chronicles an eight-week period in movie history when eight science fiction and fantasy films were released within eight weeks of each other. It charts how these films helped set the stage for high-concept films with a rabid fan base, merchandising potential and sequels. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF BRIAN MAY'S "MAD MAX 2: THE ROAD WARRIOR THEME")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today, we're talking to entertainment writer Chris Nashawaty about his new book, "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-fi Summer Of 1982" which chronicles an eight-week period in movie history which, he argues, was a major turning point in Hollywood history. Up until that point, Hollywood executives were baffled by the sci-fi/fantasy genre until movies like "E.T.," "Tron," "Poltergeist" and "Mad Max" showed them the potential of tapping into a fan base eager to spend money on merchandise and take in sequels.
Chris Nashawaty is a writer, editor and former film critic of Entertainment Weekly. His work has appeared in Esquire, Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair.
Spielberg also wrote "Poltergeist," which is about a young family that's visited by ghosts in their home. And at first, the ghosts appear friendly, but then they get more sinister. And it turns nasty, and they start to terrorize the family before they kidnap the youngest daughter. In this scene I'm about to play, a medium named Tangina, played by Zelda Rubinstein, tells the parents of the little girl that the spirits won't leave their daughter alone. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "POLTERGEIST")
ZELDA RUBINSTEIN: (As Tangina Barrons) There's one more thing. A terrible presence is in there with her. So much rage, so much betrayal - I've never sensed anything like it. I don't know what hovers over this house, but it was strong enough to punch a hole into this world and take your daughter away from you. It keeps Carol Anne very close to it and away from the spectral light. It lies to her. It says things only a child can understand. It has been using her to restrain the others. To her, it simply is another child. To us, it is the beast.
MOSLEY: That was a scene from the 1982 movie "Poltergeist, " written by Steven Spielberg. And we'll get to the director situation a little bit later. But, Chris, is it true that "Poltergeist" and "E.T." were kind of like two sides of the same coin?
NASHAWATY: They were kind of like an embryo that split into twins...
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Yeah. OK, that's a better way to put it.
NASHAWATY: The good and the evil twin.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. They both sort of emerged from the same idea. It's interesting. The movie began as a science fiction story about an alien visitation and how the aliens terrorized this family.
MOSLEY: "Poltergeist," yeah.
NASHAWATY: Yes, exactly. And along the way, it sort of evolved into this story about spirits, the supernatural, and, you know, I think that's probably a good thing. I don't know that Spielberg would have wanted to have two science fiction movies in the same summer.
MOSLEY: Well, how did it even come to be that they both came out the same summer? - because I don't think I've ever heard of that before.
NASHAWATY: Yeah, Spielberg - I'm telling you, Spielberg, at that point in time, was this prolific Energizer Bunny who just wanted to wake up and go to a movie set, shoot a movie, go to bed, repeat the next day. And so for him, making "E.T." was obviously a full-time job (laughter), but he had this great idea, and he wanted to make it now. So, you know, Directors Guild rules prevent someone from directing two movies at the same time, so he signed on to "Poltergeist" as just the producer. He also co-wrote the script. But - so he really had two movies going at the same time, and...
MOSLEY: And he hired a director. Is it Tobe Hooper?
NASHAWATY: Tobe Hooper, yeah. He had directed "The Texas Chain Saw Massacre," which - you know, anyone who hears the title immediately thinks that that's the most sort of satanic movie that's ever been made, but it's really a work of art. You know, it's - if you're into genre cinema, "Texas Chain Saw Massacre" is a beautifully...
MOSLEY: (Laughter) Is a work of art? Yeah?
NASHAWATY: It's a beautifully made movie. It's been inducted into the Museum of Modern Art.
MOSLEY: You don't have to - yeah, you don't have to sell me on it.
NASHAWATY: I don't have to sell you on "Texas Chain Saw?"
MOSLEY: But it's funny to hear it in that same context...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...That it's a work of art.
NASHAWATY: No, he really - it's a great movie, and I think a lot of movie makers at the time really thought that he was someone to bet on, Tobe Hooper.
MOSLEY: But there was a bit of a, you know...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: What would you call it, between Tobe Hooper and Stephen Spielberg? Because Stephen hired him to be the director of "Poltergeist"...
NASHAWATY: Right.
MOSLEY: ...But really, he never directed it.
NASHAWATY: Well, that is a question mark.
MOSLEY: OK.
NASHAWATY: I - that - there's a lot of speculation about this. Some people who were involved with the making of the movie feel that Spielberg - Spielberg was on the set every day but three days of the making of "Poltergeist," even though he was just a producer. There are a lot of people who say that he really took over the directing of the film from Tobe Hooper; maybe Tobe Hooper wasn't up to directing such a big, major studio movie or that he didn't have a forceful enough personality to sort of make the movie the way it should be made. Other people say that, no, Tobe Hooper did direct it. It seems to me, after the people I've spoken to and what I've read and - that all facts sort of come down on the side of Stephen Spielberg was a very hands-on producer, and Stephen Spielberg did not help himself out by making some statements, during the time of the film's release, implying that he was a much larger...
MOSLEY: He had a much larger role in it.
NASHAWATY: He had a much larger role in directing the film than he may or may not.
MOSLEY: He wanted credit for it.
NASHAWATY: He did, and I think that's what it boils down to, is that that was a story that really came from him, and I think he had a hard time giving up credit.
MOSLEY: Because he said about "Poltergeist" - he says, "Poltergeist" is what I fear, and "E.T." is what I love. One is about suburban evil, and the other is about suburban good, and both of these stories live in my heart.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: I mean, that's exactly it, and I think, you know, they are two sides of him. One is the merry prankster who used to, like, you know, scare the wits out of his sister, and the other one is someone who's interested in making heartwarming, you know, entertainment for kids, because deep down, he is a kid. And, you know, I think that "Poltergeist," or the sort of scandal that erupted from it over this - two different people taking, sort of, credit as the director, was really the first public black eye that he had ever gotten. His career had been charmed up to that point, and it's been charmed ever since, but there was this brief hiccup - right? - where he had a bit of a public relations nightmare on his hands.
MOSLEY: About these movies, did he ever share with you the impact of that year, or those movies in particular, about his career and artistic choices from that point on?
NASHAWATY: Yeah. I mean, I think - he told me that "E.T." is one of his most personal and favorite movies, and he also mentioned the fact that working with the kids was really the highlight, including a very young Drew Barrymore.
MOSLEY: That's right.
NASHAWATY: And it really - he had been sort of a loner, a single guy, for a lot of his life, and making this movie with these kids every day really sort of made him want to be a dad, which he's done several times over since then.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is author Chris Nashawaty. We're talking about his new book, "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-Fi Summer of 1982." We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JAMES HORNER'S "BATTLE IN THE MUTARA NEBULA (FROM 'STAR TREK II: THE WRATH OF KHAN')")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. and if you're just joining us, my guest is writer Chris Nashawaty. He's written a fascinating new book called "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-Fi Summer Of 1982," which chronicles the release of eight sci-fi/fantasy films during that summer, which he says were major turning points in Hollywood history. Up until that summer, Hollywood executives were baffled by the sci-fi fantasy genre. The success of movies like "E.T," "Tron," "Poltergeist" and "Mad Max: The Road Warrior" showed them the potential of tapping into a fan base eager to spend money on merchandise and watch sequels.
Chris Nashawaty is a writer, editor and former film critic for Entertainment Weekly. His work has appeared in Esquire, Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair. He is also the author of "Caddyshack: The Making Of A Hollywood Cinderella Story." There's also the emerging technology that I'm really fascinated by, 'cause when we think about the sci-fi and fantasy genre, so much of the visual is really dependent on the ability to articulate visually all that's happening. "Tron" is a really interesting story that you write about, but there was this movie in 1979 called "The Black Hole." So it was Disney's stab at sci-fi...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Like, to try to get at the "Star Wars" magic, and it was a dud, right? Like...
NASHAWATY: Yeah. Well, yeah, it was a dud. Artistically, it was certainly a dud. Commercially, I think it probably broke even, but it certainly wasn't the result that Disney was looking for, without a doubt. You know, it's funny, because Lucas and Spielberg reportedly brought - I mean, Lucas, rather, brought Star Wars to Disney...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: ...You know, when he was trying to find someone to bankroll it, and they passed.
MOSLEY: They passed.
NASHAWATY: You know?
MOSLEY: ...But, you know (laughter)...
NASHAWATY: They got it later.
MOSLEY: They got it later.
NASHAWATY: Yeah, eventually.
MOSLEY: Right, today.
NASHAWATY: They overpaid.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: But it's funny, because...
MOSLEY: He got the last laugh there.
NASHAWATY: Yeah, they did. But Disney at the time - you know, we think of Disney as sort of, like, this monolithic movie studio now that's sort of, like, the alpha dog...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: ...Among all of them, but back in 1982, this was a studio that was really on its last legs. It was, you know...
MOSLEY: And what was it holding on to?
NASHAWATY: It was holding...
MOSLEY: Because you talk about the executives at that time period.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: They were really of another generation.
NASHAWATY: They were, and they were all sort of still living in Walt Disney's shadow. You know, he had died in 1966, after presiding over, you know, the biggest animation powerhouse in the history of movies. You know, Disney was just the greatest studio that you could imagine in the '40s and '50s. But by, you know, the '70s, it was just a place where they were, you know, rereleasing old movies - you know, like, oh, you want to watch "Snow White" again? Here it is.
MOSLEY: "Bambi."
NASHAWATY: Yeah, "Bambi," for example, which I know you saw in the summer of 1982.
MOSLEY: 1982. That was actually a movie that was out during that year.
NASHAWATY: That's right. It was - you know, they put out a lot - they rereleased a lot of those golden age movies, but in terms of, like, fresh ideas, this was not the place to go, and agents knew that. It's not like they were going to, like, shop - go to Disney, you know, to get a good deal. Disney was notoriously cheap, and they weren't making good movies, and so they knew, because of "Star Wars," that this was their chance to get into the major studio sandbox and try to make some money, and they had this property, "The Black Hole," and they rolled the dice on it and paid a lot of money to make it, and it just...
MOSLEY: It didn't do that well.
NASHAWATY: It didn't do that well.
MOSLEY: Well, a couple of years later, then, there's "Tron"...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...Which is about a computer hacker who is abducted into the digital world. What did Disney learn from "The Black Hole" that then maybe helped them with the success of "Tron?"
NASHAWATY: Yeah. I mean, I think it learned that it has to gamble in order to stay alive, and, yes, "Black Hole" had been sort of an unsuccessful gamble, or at least a push, but they knew that this is the way they had to go in order to stay relevant and to stay in business. And so when it was time for "Tron" to happen, they didn't fully get the ideas that the director of "Tron," Steven Lisberger, had in mind for this movie, because it was made in a radically new process, which is called backlit animation, which makes, you know, the images look like they're backlit by neon.
MOSLEY: It was trying to look like video games.
NASHAWATY: It was, yeah. And in a way, it was perfectly timed, because, you know, if you were a kid at that age, at that time, video games were, you know...
MOSLEY: It.
NASHAWATY: They were it.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: I mean, we used to go to the arcade with a roll of quarters and just spend...
MOSLEY: Spend the whole day there.
NASHAWATY: ...The day playing "Defender"...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: ...Or, you know, "Centipede." It was a glorious time, and they tried to cash in on that with this radical idea, with an almost experimental movie, and, you know, in a way, it was too ahead of its time. It was too perfectly timed, because that audience would eventually be there; people would eventually go to see these movies about video games, but not - they weren't ready yet.
MOSLEY: They weren't ready yet.
NASHAWATY: They weren't ready yet.
MOSLEY: So "Tron" was not as successful as - yeah.
NASHAWATY: It was a break-even movie.
MOSLEY: It was a - wait, is it true that Disney used so much power it caused a brownout in the city of Burbank...
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: ...To help to film this movie?
NASHAWATY: That's right. They had to - the way they had to light a sound stage in order to make this digital process work required a huge amount of lighting, so much so that in Los Angeles, the precinct that they're in, there was a brownout, and the power company, you know, had to go to Disney and be like, you got to cool it.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, my guest is writer Chris Nashawaty. We're talking about his new book, "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-Fi Summer Of 1982." The book chronicles an eight-week period in movie history when eight science fiction and fantasy films were released within eight weeks of each other. It charts how these films helped set the stage for high-concept films with a rabid fan base, merchandising potential and sequels. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE LONDON PHILHARMONIC ORCHESTRA'S "THEME FROM TRON")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. And today, we're talking to entertainment writer Chris Nashawaty about his new book, "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks And The Epic Sci-Fi Summer Of 1982," which chronicles an eight-week period in movie history which, he argues, was a major turning point in Hollywood history. Up until that point, Hollywood executives were baffled by the sci-fi/fantasy genre, until movies like "E.T.," "Tron," "Poltergeist" and "Mad Max" showed them the potential of tapping into a fan base eager to spend money on merchandise and take in sequels. Chris Nashawaty is a writer, editor and former film critic of Entertainment Weekly. His work has appeared in Esquire, Sports Illustrated and Vanity Fair.
You know, I'm thinking about this time period of 1982 in the context of today. And there're so many remakes and reboots, and we're used to them coming and going, and some of them are really good, and some of them are not. You write about "Star Trek" and the attempt to remake a movie that was made a few years before 1982. So "Star Trek," as we know, was a show, and then a movie was made in the late '70s. It was horrible, right?
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: It wasn't that good.
NASHAWATY: I think it's horrible. Yeah. People did not like it. Yes.
MOSLEY: Yeah. And then, studios decided, though, that it still deserved another chance at a movie.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: So there we had "Wrath Of Khan," which was a success - so much, so that 40 years later, I mean, the franchise is still a success.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: What happened during that time period to really actually save it?
NASHAWATY: Yeah. We really probably still wouldn't be talking about "Star Trek" if it wasn't for "The Wrath Of Khan," the second movie, that did come out in the summer of 1982. It's interesting because the first "Star Trek" movie was made because, you know, Paramount had the sort of rights to this franchise because of the TV show, and they had been playing the show with William Shatner from the '60s in syndication. And it was, you know...
MOSLEY: Doing - yeah.
NASHAWATY: It was doing really well. I mean...
MOSLEY: Right.
NASHAWATY: ...People loved - it had this cult following, and people really liked it. So, you know, they knew that this was a real potential gold mine that they had. Why not turn it into a movie? So they did, in 1979, with "Star Trek: The Motion Picture," and it's terrible. It's got really great special effects, which were cutting edge for the time - now look a little cheesy, but the movie is just not good.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: It's long, it doesn't have any of the things that we want to see in a "Star Trek" movie, especially after that long hiatus from the TV show. You want to check back in with the people that you love, Spock, you know...
MOSLEY: Yup.
NASHAWATY: ...Sulu, you know, all these - Kirk.
MOSLEY: Yep.
NASHAWATY: You really want to, like, see the interplay between them. And it's really - it's just this excuse for a lot of expensive special effects, and the story's lousy. And so the movie - it did OK. It actually made money, the first one, because, you know, the merchandising and all of that. And people were curious. But no one liked the movie. Even "Star Trek" fans did not like the movie. Critics certainly didn't like the movie.
MOSLEY: What made them want to do it again? They tried again with "Wrath Of Khan."
NASHAWATY: Because they made money on it.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: And they saw the potential. They didn't - like anyone else, they didn't want to leave money on the table. They thought there might still be some life in it. But if they did a second one, it was going to have to be made differently. I mean, the first one went way over budget. And it just - there was no real quality control on it. So I think they felt that they should do a sequel. It should be made less expensively, so there was less exposure, and they needed to have more quality control on it. And so that's what they set out to do. Now, the problem was - is that Leonard Nimoy, Spock, probably the most iconic character, you know, maybe along with Kirk, in the whole show, in the whole franchise - Nimoy did not want to come back. He hated the first movie. He had sort of a love-hate relationship with the character, even though it was the most iconic thing he'd ever done. It was something that he didn't like being - it felt like an albatross.
MOSLEY: And you can't have a movie without him. Yeah.
NASHAWATY: You can't - I don't see how.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
NASHAWATY: And so they had to really woo him to get him involved. You know, but it was really one sort of nightmare after another on the making of this movie, and it just feels to me like a terrific story, especially if you're, you know, a "Star Trek" fan, which I am. I think that this movie delivers everything you want from a "Star Trek" movie. It's got a great villain in Khan, played by Ricardo Montalban. It's got - the effects don't overwhelm the movie, but they're very good. The story is terrific. It's about grappling with age and mortality, something that all the actors were doing.
MOSLEY: And it sounds like all of the actors and everyone involved were really - they were really motivated to make sure that this one was good.
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Because they had already experienced that really, it was traumatic for them to do it the other time.
NASHAWATY: Yeah. I mean - it's the thing that they're identified with.
MOSLEY: Right.
NASHAWATY: And to put out, you know, a lackluster version of it after 15 years away from the TV show - it really stung. So they wanted to get a do-over, and that's what they got with "Wrath Of Khan."
MOSLEY: Members of the cast that year, that summer, then went on to go to Comic-Con, right?
NASHAWATY: Yeah.
MOSLEY: And I think this is so fascinating when we talk about just the fandom that then grew and built from this time period that we know today. So Comic-Con was just over a decade old...
NASHAWATY: Yep.
MOSLEY: ...Right? - during that time period. So much money is put into fandom in merchandising and other types of things. And in reading your book, I just wondered if the success of 1982 was more about teaching Hollywood executives how to cash in versus the art of it. We did have art that came out of it. But what is your takeaway? You stopped short of bringing down like the lessons learned from that time period.
NASHAWATY: Yeah, I mean, I'd like for people to maybe draw -maybe that's laziness, but I do, I like people to draw their own lessons from what happened. My big takeaway from this is that, you know, there - it was about cashing in, but at the same time, the reason I like this story is because it really parallels what's going on with Hollywood right now, OK? You've got the studios under threat, OK? Now, right now, the studios are under threat from the streamers and a lack of theatrical attendance after COVID. It never really picked back up entirely. There's still movies that are doing well, but as a whole, the industry is sort of soft right now. And the studios are freaking out. And the same thing was going on in 1982. There was - obviously change of foot because of "Star Wars," and they all needed to get into that game of making event movies, and they didn't know how to do it. Or if they did do it, those movies were so expensive that they really needed them to hit. Now, I feel like in 1982, the studios were really creative and took gambles to get out of the hole they were in, OK? They made movies like the ones that are covered in this book, which, regardless of whether or not you like them - you know, I obviously love them - but regardless of whether or not you like them, they are ambitious. They make statements. They're well made. They're original. And right now, I feel like that's the exact opposite of what's happening...
MOSLEY: Where we are.
NASHAWATY: ...In Hollywood. I feel like the studios are sort of curling into a fetal ball and hoping that the world - like, all of these problems just disappear and blow past like a tornado and that they won't get too devastated during the tornado. And I just don't think that's the right way to...
MOSLEY: The one...
NASHAWATY: ...Take the moment of opportunity.
MOSLEY: Right. And also, though, the one difference is they had "Star Wars" as a proof of concept...
NASHAWATY: Yep.
MOSLEY: ...And "Jaws" as a proof of concept. But what is the proof of concept today to say, here's the thing that you should take the leap on?
NASHAWATY: Well, I think that it's streaming. And I think that, you know, a lot of - there are a lot of big studios and giant companies that are betting on streaming and are going to fail. I think that they think that the Netflix model will work for all of them and that there will be room for all of them at the table, and there won't. There's just no way that the environment can nurture and sustain seven or eight different streaming services. You know, people are not going to pay an invisible $10 a month for eight different services forever, you know?
MOSLEY: So we'll see a constriction.
NASHAWATY: I think so, yeah.
MOSLEY: Will that make our choices better?
NASHAWATY: I doubt it. It never does. Monopolies never make your choices better. I think that - I mean, I don't want to get too, you know, gloom and doom about it, but I do think that the studios are going to have to get smarter and more creative and riskier about getting out of this situation that they're in. They need to make better movies, and they need to get people to come to the theater. And it's not by making sequels and prequels and sidequels and whatever, you know? It's just not. It's got to be something new. It's got to be an "Oppenheimer" or a "Barbie." And it's - those need to come out more frequently in order for a rebound.
But the thing I like about 1982 is that there were movie studios being run by people who weren't in different businesses. You know what I mean? They weren't cogs in a conglomerate. They were being run by people who loved movies - not all of them, but, I mean, you get my point. Like, there's - there was more...
MOSLEY: Less of a business decision.
NASHAWATY: It felt like less of a business and more of an art.
MOSLEY: Well, this was really fun, going down memory lane and also learning all of this background information that we didn't know about these movies that are enduring movies that still stand the test of time. Chris Nashawaty, thank you so much.
NASHAWATY: Thank you for having me.
MOSLEY: Chris Nashawaty is a writer, editor and former film critic for Entertainment Weekly. His new book is called "The Future Was Now: Madmen, Mavericks, And The Epic Sci-fi Summer Of 1982."
Coming up, rock critic Ken Tucker continues his series of albums celebrating their 50th anniversary this year with "In Too Much Too Soon" from the New York Dolls. This is FRESH AIR.
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