STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
We have a childhood memory of the late Jimmy Carter's presidency. Carter was elected in 1976, when his grandson, Jason Carter, was 1 year old. When Carter lost reelection, Jason was five. In later years, he sometimes traveled with his grandfather as he worked in Africa. A few months ago, we called Jason Carter to talk about these times.
JASON CARTER: So I have a lot of memories of being in the White House. As any sort of toddler and, you know, 5-year-old in kindergarten, you know, when I would go visit my grandparents, we would go to their house, and it just happened to be the White House. They did their very best, I think, to just stay normal people. And that's one of the things that I think is fundamentally true about my grandparents, is they were these two folks from a small town in South Georgia when they went into the White House, and they were those exact same people when they came out.
INSKEEP: Do you remember when he lost in 1980?
CARTER: I do, actually. I - we were in the White House. We were watching TV, and you could tell that the grown-ups were getting disappointed. And for me, after that, we had other things that happened in my life, where we moved and did some other things that made a bigger impact on me, but I do remember the night.
INSKEEP: You couldn't have been happy.
CARTER: I don't remember it being a big deal to me because the people that I knew in that White House were still going to be my grandparents. It was still going to be my parents. We were just going to go to a different place. And, you know, I'm not sure I had an understanding of, you know, the fact that they were going to take the solar panels off the roof of the White House, the fact that they were going to, you know, turn back the clock on a variety of things or move on to different things. Right? I wasn't really aware, in that same way, that it was a loss for the family.
INSKEEP: I want to jump ahead here now and note that when you grew up in later years, you ran for governor of Georgia - a job that your grandfather once had held - and you lost. Did the way that he handled defeat inform the way that you handled defeat?
CARTER: Absolutely. When I ran for governor, I knew it was a long shot. And my grandfather told me, you know, there's a lot worse things than losing an election. And I do think that watching him go through an election where he was very disappointed to lose, and yet still come forward and do the remarkable things that he has done over the last four decades - it makes you realize that there are things that are so much more important than political victory. And ultimately, as my friend says, you know, history casts the final ballot on whatever it is that you're doing, and politics is pretty temporary in that way.
INSKEEP: Each former president approaches the post-presidency in different ways. How did your grandfather think of his?
CARTER: I think my grandfather was really driven by his faith and his desire to do what he could to help others, and particularly the most marginalized people in the world. And so for him, the Carter Center was really designed to be a place of peace and ultimately to be a place of fighting disease. And my grandfather focused heavily on neglected tropical diseases, which essentially afflicted only the poorest people in the world, most of whom were in Africa. And he spent his life since the White House really promoting and partnering with communities at the very end of the road to both bring human rights and health care and empowerment to those partners of his. And I think it was an incredibly fulfilling thing to watch.
INSKEEP: I am remembering occasions where he was willing to weigh in on a controversial topic. We could talk about Israel-Palestine and his opinions there. I'm also remembering an occasion where before the U.S. restored relations with Cuba, that he visited Cuba and gave a speech in Cuba, which the communist authorities allowed to be broadcast across the island. But that was a controversial choice. What did he think about in those kinds of instances?
CARTER: You know, I think my grandfather, certainly once he left the White House and probably while he was in the White House, just decided he wanted to do the right thing and sort of let the politics be damned. And it got him some tension with sitting presidents for a time or two. But he really just believed that it made more sense for him, who had his platform, to get up and tell the truth and do what he thinks is right, even if it's going to be controversial. And he deployed it (laughter), sometimes to great effect and sometimes just to controversy.
INSKEEP: I'm also thinking about somebody who travels the world and then comes back to Georgia and teaches Sunday school, which he continued until fairly recently. Isn't that right?
CARTER: I think my grandfather taught Sunday school almost 30 Sundays a year in Plains, and it was at his church. And that's one of the things that kept him grounded, that helped him sort of maintain that moral center. Certainly, I think - if you asked him what was his favorite thing to do, I think he would tell you, teach Sunday school...
INSKEEP: I'm...
CARTER: ...And work in his woodshop.
INSKEEP: Oh, interesting - and related, somehow, spiritually. I am remembering reading in one of his books that he described himself, I think, as a red-letter Baptist, meaning that he put greatest emphasis on the words of Jesus Christ that are in red in the Bible and you give a lot less weight to everything else. Is that right?
CARTER: Well, I think really, truly, my grandfather tried to base his life on Jesus'. And I think there is a lot of certainly the public face of Christianity that has lost some of that red text, as you might call it, where we're looking at how - really what it means to live and model your life after Jesus. And I do think my grandfather did that, and I think that meant that it drove him to deal with the least of these - right? - the commandment to love your neighbor as yourself.
INSKEEP: The more we're talking - I'm sorry about this - I keep remembering other things I've read by this guy, 'cause I read a lot of these books that he wrote over the years. An occasion that he recounts when he's in the White House, it's the late '70s. Some religious conservatives come to visit him in the White House and they have a nice meeting, as President Carter recounts it. But then, on the way out, one of the pastors in this meeting says words to the effect of, I wish you'd become a Christian. He did not even accept this person with liberal policies as a Christian. Did that happen much?
CARTER: You know, I think he certainly was perhaps controversial among some of the politicized Christian right. But I think really, these days, what you see is a huge number of Christians in this country and around the world inspired by his work. You know, his work building houses with Habitat for Humanity, his work doing good works for the poor across the world in a way that I think recounts to people that same faith story that my grandfather has lived out.
INSKEEP: I'm thinking about surveys in which Americans are asked, is the country moving in the right direction? And majorities of people for years and years have said, no, we're not moving in the right direction. Your grandfather has had this very long perspective, though - a political career going back to 1962. If we could ask him, is the country moving in the right direction? Has it moved in the right direction during your lifetime? What do you think he'd say?
CARTER: Oh, I think my grandfather, in these hundred years, has seen the most remarkable transformation of our country that you could imagine for the better, right? I mean, he grew up in a segregated South that has been transformed into a place where, you know, people participate and lead multiracial coalitions. We've seen so many of those issues go - come forward. We've transformed the health care of our people. We've changed the world in so many ways. I think the progress of this globe and of this country during my grandfather's life is something that he marvels at. And I think if the rest of us really look at it, we'd all marvel at it.
INSKEEP: Jason Carter, it's a real pleasure talking with you. Thank you so much.
CARTER: Likewise. Thank you so much.
INSKEEP: Jimmy Carter's grandson spoke with us in September. Jason also talked of his grandfather's life as a writer, and you can find that conversation at npr.org.
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