The Republican and Democratic candidates for Pennsylvania attorney general debated for the second time Tuesday. Republican Dave Sunday and Democrat Eugene DePasquale revisited some topics — like their differences on abortion rights and marijuana legalization — that arose in their first meeting, but Tuesday’s forum also offered differing views on gun control, combating retail theft rings and reforming cash bail.
Sunday was elected York County’s District Attorney in 2017, after serving as a deputy prosecutor and special assistant to federal prosecutors. DePasquale is a former House member and two-term state auditor general, who currently serves as an adjunct professor at the University of Pittsburgh.
But while those life experiences differed, both candidates cited them among their qualifications.
“I have looked at murderers in the eye and I have convicted them of murder,” said Sunday, who noted that he was backed by law-enforcement groups who want someone with such a background to hold the office.
DePasquale said he’d had tough experiences of his own, including a cousin who died due to opioids. He said that background, and his work as auditor general, had instilled a sense of compassion that was also important for justice.
“The job of the attorney general is a complicated state agency, something I've already led,” DePasquale said. “It's about fighting for rights in fighting for your justice, and I'll bring your values in.”
But both he and Sunday agreed the attorney general’s office is a complicated complex job.
They candidates did agree on several issues: protecting children from harmful effects of social media, rooting out scams that target seniors, and decreasing drug overdose deaths while prioritizing mental health. But moderator Dennis Owens found a handful on which they clashed.
Retail theft rings
Sunday repeated his criticism of DePasquale’s biography, arguing his DA experience would help the Attorney General’s Office curtail group theft by crime rings, while DePasquale has no experience procuring criminals.
“Unlike, you know, auditing things, I want to talk about prosecuting people,” Sunday said. “When you look at these organized retail theft groups, we have seen this ourselves where they are just the tip of the iceberg.” While the thefts may simply seem like large-scale shoplifting offenses, Sunday said his office had found signs of crossover with organized violent gangs and drug distributors.
DePasquale countered that his investigations as auditor general have already made Pennsylvania safer by investigating unsafe nursing homes, a faulty child abuse hotline and a backlog of untested rape kits. But he said he’d protect small businesses that sometimes bear the brunt of retail theft, adding that some prosecutors believe smash-and-grab burglars “aren’t a big deal” if they target national chain retailers. (DePasquale seemingly referred to recently shelved a six-year-old policy in Philadelphia, in which people who steal less than $500 in merchandise would receive only summary citations.)
Gun control
DePasquale said the state legislature hasn’t done enough to make Pennsylvania safe. He believes the state should adopt universal background checks to thoroughly vet gun buyers and supports a law that would allow a judge to take away a gun from someone deemed at risk of violence “through a judicial process that temporarily, I want to repeat, temporarily restricts someone's access to firearms when they are a danger to themselves and their community.”
Passing new laws would be outside the attorney general’s purview, but while Sunday said the state could do more, he didn’t share DePasquale's enthusiasm for new gun laws. Sunday said that as district attorney, he had reduced violent crime by using laws already on the books. He also touted a group violence initiative that drew on community leaders for guidance, calling it a model for the state.
“This is something that can be done all throughout Pennsylvania,” Sunday said. “We reach out within our own community, and you have people that live in the actual areas that go out and talk to the citizens,” Sunday said.
“You have to bring in probation, parole, Children, Youth and Family [services], the Black minister,” he added. “You have to bring everybody in to have these conversations.”
Cash bail and sentencing guidelines
The candidates also quickly weighed in on an issue that has arisen in neighboring New York: eliminating cash bail for people accused of some nonviolent offenses. The policy is hailed by progressive groups for addressing “wealth-based detention,” in which people without access to financial resources are disproportionately incarcerated before having a trial.
Sunday said he’s opposed to following New York’s lead, while DePasquale countered with a more equivocal response: “The number-one priority should be community safety. If someone's a flight risk… we should not be offering bail. If someone should be offered bail, then you offer bail – it's that simple.”
Both candidates supported new state sentencing guidelines intended to address disparities in the legal system. Sunday added he had served on the Pennsylvania Sentencing Commission while the guidelines were drawn up.
In a bit of levity before closing arguments, Sunday and DePasquale also agreed that outdated laws that prohibit fortune telling, as well as car sales on Sundays, should be reconsidered.
